Different location for automatic backups?

[UpdraftplusParticipant]

Hi,

Just setup my scheduled backups system to go to dropbox – it’s very very very very slow… eating server cpu like crazy.

Worse – on another site (on the same server) I’ve turned on the Automatic backup features. Seems a great idea. And, I thought that these automatic backups would be stored locally – so they’d be fast.

Well, trying to update 3 plugins is going on 30 minutes now… because Updraft is trying to do an auto store to the very slow dropbox connection. Wasn’t sure at first what was happening so started the update again… now 3 verions of auto update attempting to slowly load to dropbox.

It seems that there might be options for where specific types of backups go…

eg,
automatic backups (which are just db backups) default locally, but could be routed anywhere
Backup Now – also a choice. if I’m manually doing a backup at the moment, it’s probably because I’m about to make a significant change or want to quickly get a copy of my system. If I’m clicking Backup Now and have scheduled backups going to dropbox, then I probably want it FAST…

So, the working scenario seems…
a) after logging in, turn of Drop box, save, then do Backup Now, then turn drop box back on.

b) if I plan to make any changes to my system… turn off Dropbox, turn on Automatic backups, do my work, turn off Automatic backups, turn dropbox back on.

It seems if using offsite storage for scheduled backups then Automatic Backups should be left turned off.

I’m guessing that there’s something I’m missing as this sort of work flow workaround does not seem very productive.

Thanks for tips to enlighten me on better practices and use.

Stephen

[UpdraftplusParticipant]

Followup…

I’ve been trying to update 3 plugins for about 1 hour now and still not complete.

The problem as previously noted starts with Updraft trying to do an automatic backup to Dropbox.

Ultimately – none of the dropbox auto backups every complete… they time out so was a complete waste…

but, while they are eating all the resources to fail, the prevent the updates from completing.

It appears that using Automatic Backup is really not compatible with using offsite storage.

I’ve turned it off so I can get some work done.

[UpdraftplusParticipant]

Sorry… wrote to so… I was about to turn off Automatic Backups… but there is no setting to do this that I can find.

Is there a way to turn this off short of deactivating the plugin?

[UpdraftplusParticipant]

Found how to turn off Automatic updates in advanced settings.

[udadminKeymaster]

Hi Stephen,

Glad you got this sorted!

Best wishes,
David

[UpdraftplusParticipant]

I wouldn’t call this “sorted” or resolved by any means.

All I did was find out to turn off Automatic Backup.

The big problem remains – you can have Scheduled Backups set to an off site location and have Automatic Backups running.

Pretty big limitation – leaves one of the two useless and they’re both big features… chose which one you don’t want to you.

[udadminKeymaster]

Hi Stephen,

It’s not possible to specify different destinations for different use cases through the dashboard, but a developer can hook into the WordPress hooks and filters used by UpdraftPlus, to apply this kind of customisation. If you’ve got a developer, then you should ask him to take a look – it is possible, with some programming work. If you’ve not got one, then I can put you in touch with a developer who does WordPress modifications of this sort.

Best wishes,
David

[UpdraftplusParticipant]

Seems like it should be advertised…

This feature doesn’t work with that one… unless you hire a developer.

Most people expect that plugins and features from the same company work together – i this case they don’t. They work against each other.

Automatic backup is a good selling point, but… it’s not viable for any of your customers to use if they do offsite backups. Pretty serious limitation.

In my opinion it’s something that should be resolved within the core product. it’s not a 1 off need – it’s the most common preferred scenario of use…. that doesn’t work.

[udadminKeymaster]

Hi Stephen,

Having different routing of backup destinations for different backup types is an interesting idea – but it is an idea for a new feature. Requests for new features are good – we value feedback.

It may be a pretty serious limitation for you, but it would be a mistake to generalise your specific needs to the other 100,000 UpdraftPlus users – yours if the first request for this idea. There’s a distinction to be made between “advertised feature doesn’t work” and “I have a unique use case that I could do with a personal customisation for”, which is what was driving my response.

Best wishes,
David

[udadminKeymaster]

Hi Stephen,

Amongst the discussion of backing routing options, I forgot to mention a more fundamental point. It’s not even possible for network traffic to cause a lot of CPU load, until you got to several orders of magnitude beyond the kind of thing we’re talking about. You’d need to be transferring multi-gigabits per second before even the cheapest CPU will start to be concerned. Network bandwidth will always run out long, long before the amount of data being passed through will start to trouble a CPU.

e.g. https://www.dssnetworks.com/v3/faqs.asp#CPUREQ
“Q. What is the basic formula for determining how fast of a CPU is needed for Gigabit Ethernet?

A. The basic rule or formula in the industry applicable to TCP/IP protocol is 1 MHZ of CPU for each megabit of data and allowing for application processing. This equates to a 1-GHZ CPU for a wire speed transfer in one direction or a 2-GHZ CPU for a bi-directional transfer in full-duplex mode when using the TCP/IP protocol stack. Using other protocols including UDP/IP or direct-IP can provide better performance with lower CPU utilization.”

So, if you do have high CPU usage, then you need to re-analyze what is causing it – it’s not the fact that data is uploaded to the network. When UD reaches the upload stage, all the work that needed non-insignificant CPU is over.

Best wishes,
David

[UpdraftplusParticipant]

Hi David,

I understand your point – makes sense.

So, I’ll ask a different way…

How does one use these 2 great features? Is there a way to use both?
a) remote storage for backup
b) automatic backup

My work scenario is that if i’m going to make changes I like to do a quick backup before i start. So, a quick backup local option would be nice. Or, if the autobackup worked, then that would be great too. But that means not using remote backup or continually turning it off/on.

Concerning CPU – yes, I understand for basic data transfer… as long as one app isnt sitting and waiting for the transfer to complete before moving to it’s next operation. which kinda seemed might be the case… the Updraft processes appeared to be hanging while waiting on the data to flow… at least that was the guess as to why cpu went up… and it was repeatable… easy to duplicate the problem again.

So again – if 1000s of users are using these features – how? What are they doing to get their work done?

I had super amazing success using Migrate over the last year that I couldn’t wait to branch out to new features. Migrate changed the way I work, for the better, and helped me test and move sites 100 times more than I would have previously. Fast easy test site – a snap. Vendor wants Admin access to debug a broken plugin – make a quick copy – snap!

So, I was excited to get the full boat load of tools in upgrading to your All In package and just a bit bummed that I can’t actually use any of the new features (yet) – maybe another workflow.

Thanks for any guidance on this.
Stephen

[udadminKeymaster]

Hi Stephen,

Can you post a log file of a backup that was problematic, so that I can read it, please? Also, it sounds like this is a system you run yourself – ?? If so, what are the specifications?

So again – if 1000s of users are using these features – how? What are they doing to get their work done?

AFAIK, they’re not having to do anything special (and the current number of users of UD is counted in 6 figures, not 4!) – it just works! (Even a problem affecting 1% of users results in a lot of feedback, at that kind of scale). I’d like to get some more data on your particular issue, to find out what’s the root of the problem.

Best wishes,
David

[UpdraftplusParticipant]

Hi David,

Glad to have asked again… as I would expect what I’m trying to do is a very desired common usage.

With 100,000 users, I’d think maybe 50,000 would want to do what I’m trying to do. Yes, you would be flooded with questions on this – so, most likely I’m doing something wrong or don’t understand what to expect.

I’m on Bluehost.com VPS with 2 cpu cores, 2G ram, 60G disk space. Outside of running backups, my CPU usage stays around .3-.5 and memory usage rarely goes above 50%… same for disk space… I have about 35G free space even after the bluehost automatic backups are stored. (websites and all data less than 8G – most of it audio and video lessons that are not included in the UD backups). Plugins on my biggest site account for ~90% of the 97MB backup size. For more details on the Bluehost software configuration, probably easiest to view that on their site rather than posting inline. Is that the info you needed?

I’m not sure what exactly you would like posted for a “backup that was problematic”… the backups are fine as far as I know.

The problem/question is how to have remote backup turned on and have Automatic Backups turned on… (maybe those are intended to be mutually exclusive features? )

If remote backup is turned on, then when an Automatic Backup starts, I’m waiting 45 minutes before I can do anything else on my site, which seems counter to the intention of encouraging and facilitating more frequent backups prior to WP Update.

It appear that Automatic Backup is like a shortcut to 1) “Backup Now” followed by 2) WP Update

If step #1 takes 45 minutes to complete then you need to be very very careful before you click the WP Update button (only click WP Update button if you’re about to go out for lunch or at the end of a work day because you won’t be able to work with you site for 45 minutes – if it’s a small site).

But, if the backup is set locally, then Automatic Backup runs fast, so you get back to work quickly in a minute or 2.

I would have expected that Automatic Backup would do a fast backup to disk, then kick off a background task to transfer the backup to the remote site, thereby allowing control to quickly return to process the WP Update, followed by allowing the user to continue working.

Thank you help and clarification,

Stephen

[udadminKeymaster]

Hi,

I really need to see a log file from one of the automatic backups, so that I can understand the timings… if you go to the ‘Existing Backups’ tab, and click on the ‘Log’ button for one of these, then that should let you download it. You can then upload it somewhere like pastebin.com, and post the link here.

Backing up 90Mb of plugins should be the work of a few seconds only. So if it’s taking longer than that, something’s up. But, it’s likely to be something up elsewhere, as there’s not really anything UpdraftPlus can do to make it take ridiculously long, even if it wants to – so likely to be either that the VPS is oversold and not delivering the performance it should, or that it was just a bad time, or something else – but seeing the log will help me to say something that is less speculative.

Best wishes,
David

[UpdraftplusParticipant]

Hi David,

Concerned about posting this where it’s visible to others. Is there a way to send you a private link?

This morning was a classic situation
2am – regular schedule backup complets

around 4:30am I want to add a new plugin but am doing an Update first… 30 minutes later it’s still going with the backup… and ultimately the status is “not finished”

So, this should be the perfect file to look at… but it show a date of yesterday????

Jan 28, 2015 2:00 – this morning

Jan 27, 2015 6:35
Automatic backup before update
(Not finished)

Jan 27, 2015 2:00 – yesterday morning

Either the Automatic backup from 4:30 am this morning did not log, or it logged as the wrong date.

I have this log file ready to deliver when certain of a secure way to get it to you.

Thank you,
Stephen

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